RAIDING GUIDELINES

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:34:59 PST

applied new changes. not the end all of end all. if anything comes to light, i can always tweek it some more.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:57:24 PST

ehhh... the examples given were, and this discussion WAS about trinkets:

Muradin's Spyglass (ICC 10) (crit and 180sp)
Eye of the Broodmother (ULD 10) (Crit and 125sp)
Reign of the Unliving (TOC25) (178sp and crit proc)

Those are DPS trinkets first, if a healer wants to roll on it if all DPS passes, more power too them.

What items are we complaining about here guys? I looked through all of the 232-264 trinkets in the game, and saw a few 264 trinkets that have SP as their main effect, and MP5 on their secondary effect... but certainly 2 trinkets are not going to cause us to change our loot rules.

As for spell DPS rolling on MP5 items... Elemental Shammies have been given the go-ahead to roll on MP5 items as of about a month ago.

Warlocks don't need MP5
Can't say I EVER come close to running out of mana on my boomer and I certainly don't gear or gem for MP5.
Mages have mana gems AND evocate
Shadow...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (UltimateBach) — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:52:40 PST

When you have items that have a mix of MP5 + Crit, or Spirit + Haste, et cetera, the line is somewhat blurred as to whether that is a DPS or Heals item. Not just for trinkets, but for all items. Many cloth items come-up that have MP5, Spell, Crit on them. Are crit heals really more beneficial to downing a target, than crit damage strikes? Yet the item has MP5, so it goes straight to a healer, regardless of effecacy.

MP5 increases the longevity of a healer during fights, they can stay on healing for a greater period of time, tanks stay alive, we win. That is the traditional theory.
MP5 increases the damage output of casters, they can stay on that high-mana/high-damage supernuke for longer, don't have to go into mana-conservation, DPS/damage output goes up, target dies faster, we win.

It should, then, be ascertained whether our healers are running out of mana during the fights we are doing/expect to do, or whether lack...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:23:47 PST

So... i think we're covered. Spirit MP5 trinkets go first to healers... crit/haste trinkets go first to DPS. Course... Hit trinkets go to DPS. Am I missing something, are you guys wanting to say DPS has a right to get first roll on Spirit MP5 trinkets? If not, there's no discussion, we already have healers roll first on spirit MP5 trinkets... and DPS on crit and haste trinkets.

If a DPS wants a spirit / MP5 trinket, he can wait until he can get it as an off-set roll. Vice Versa for a healer wanting a Crit / Haste piece.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (UltimateBach) — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:07:38 PST

If you have 50-100% regen talents while casting (mages, etc), spirit is very important. Once you have 650 intellect and 650 spirit, your spirit counts 1 point to 1 point of MP5, if you have 100% regen. Spirit-based regen relies upon Intellect in the algorithm now, and since patch 2.4. Most mages have insane Intellect scores, with low Spirit, which results in about 1.3 points of Spirit to 1 point of MP5. Unfortunately, Blizzard made arcane-spec mages as if they were the negation of a direct-heal class: instead of HPS we deal DPS.

The main stats needed for arcane DPS increases are Spellpower>Haste>MP5>Spirit>Crit, because of mana issues. I excluded Intellect and Hit rating in that hiarchy because those stats come automatically, or cap very low, from mage gear. Why is crit so low? Because you can't crit if you are out-of-mana, and several arcane talents make up for lack of crit%, plus most of your gear and your INT gives you some crit...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:52:17 PST

NP bud.... I don't think anyone will argue that MP5 trinkets and spirit trinkets are primarily for healers... and crit / haste trinkets are primarily for spell dps. no worries there -- i've never run into this being an issue with this guild. Anyone disagree, and think we should raise this as an issue?

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Hegetaga) — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 00:13:07 PST

Ok so I have been thinking...

I know the mages, warlocks, shamans (ele), shadowpriests, boomkins can all agree that spellcaster trinkets (The good ones anyhow) are few and far in between and very difficult to get for upgrades.

Many of the DPS trinkets actually apply to both healers and DPS classes because of spell / haste / crit.

Now healers can roll on both MP5 and haste/crit/spell power trinkets, and DPS roll on hit/spell/crit/haste trinkets. In theory this makes sense...

Especially if there were as many good DPS caster trinkets as there were Healer trinkets.
As we know and have seen there are a TON of healer type trinkets out in the game that are amazing for mana upkeep for those intense ICC fights.
It's funny when I bring this up how people say (Man there is a 264 trinket that gives you 172 hit and a clicky 724 sp for 20 seconds with a 2 min CD)
Yet it is funny how most ALL dps classes haven't gone with...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:41:14 PST

Yup, if we make it a rule to always make it the #2 roller who gets it if #1 changes his mind, that sounds good. We'll just have to look for any abuse to the system.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Jarrod Anderson) — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:48:26 PST

Adjusted requirements look great :) If anything else comes to mind I will post it here, but as you have them right now look right on par.

As for the trading loot situation after rolls or selling an item after you win a roll... I have to say this has to be 100% discouraged if not completely not allowed. When an item is up for a /roll, we should just stick with our current loot rules. No one should roll on an item if they dont intend on using it... If after they receive an item they won by /roll and then they determine is wasn't actually the upgrade they thought it would be, that item should go to the next highest roller that is qualified under loot rules to receive the item. Even if you and Stacy rolled at the same time and you had highest and then determined you didn't want it, it would just be treated as if you never rolled and the second highest roll would then be the highest and they should...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Jarrod Anderson) — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:50:13 PST

Just got home, nice 12.5hr day . Just now checked this post from my iPhone gotta get some stuff done then I will sit down at the pc and check everything out more thoroughly.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:48:51 PST

hows this look. I met you halfway on the dodge / avoidance, raising it from 40 to 45 (not 50) since Og's been in there twice with 41%. I've no problem being below the requirement, it'll simply show i'm being allowed to tank for the mere reason we lack another to take my place. And since I could successfully take us through 3 bosses as one of the offtanks, we should keep our list realistic. Almost makes me think we need a separate listing for main tank and offtank(s). What do you guys think? Really... its seems we always take the tanks we can get since they are a commodity. I can't recall ever having to roll off a tank, but then again i've been missing tons of raids. So what you think, add 2 offtank columns with slightly decreasing stat req, maybe put the main tank at 50% avoidance then the third offtank column would be blank for almost all the raids except ICC. Thoughts?

I've added Expertise Rating for ICC since i don't think that Boss mechanic was an issue...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:04:39 PST

ya, i noticed the tanks and healers were neglected after the fact. not sure how i had that missight. Explain the expertise... is that 26 points or 26% i've never really paid any attention to it.

As for healers... ya, Oli is up to 2800 i think. Those need some bumping up as well. I might need to separate druid healers from other healers like we do tanks.

I'll get those updated, just send let me know what type of stat expertise is... points or percent.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Jarrod Anderson) — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:45:56 PST

Just noticed the addition of the ICC raid requirements, glad we finally got them up there but I would make some minor adjustments.

ICC tanks I think should be 50% Avoidance for minimum esp due to the -20% Dodge debuff. That is what I have been telling all the tanks to push for if they want to have successful ICC raids. Tanks should also have expertise at a minimum of 26, there are a couple bosses in there that get haste increases when they parry a tanks attack which can quickly lead to a tank being hit faster than heals can heal, we have seen it happen.

Healers should be self buffed up to 2200 or even better 2400 I think for ICC... Most of our standard ICC healers are all over 2600 heals. These are some of our normal healers Heal Power with no buffs: Underverse is at 2905, Kinsmate is 3004, Anashan is 2634, Holyhawk is 2603, Calize is 2926, Shiftme 2280, Billyblack 2475, Paco was a lowly 2013 but he was wearing pvp gear on the...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Pepijn van Scheijen) — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:31:07 PST

Lol suck up.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:46:18 PST

thanks Anashan :)

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Anashan) — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:57:59 PST

Great guild. I nominate Og for GM.

Serioulsy, great guild. Thanks for having me. Our officers meeting the other day showed what a mature raiding guild should be run like. Our loot system is not broke. Now if I could just get that neck from ICC.............

Thanks Og!

Anashan

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:33:44 PST

bump -- this was recently editted to show ICC raid req, more streamlined req between 10 and 25 versions... added VOA boss# 4. Added MP5 items allowed for elemental shammies on first roll.

Also -- BE MINDFUL... I don't know how to word the rules for trading items after the Loot Master distributes them... BUT, we need to start brainstorming because its an odd scenario:

1) A person could roll last after seeing the rolls when they see their friend lose a roll for an item then trade it to them later. Essentially gives that person 2 rolls.
2) A person can sell their item to other people in the raid. Essentially encourages people to roll for items they don't need.

We cannot just automatically assume it would go to the NEXT HIGHEST roller if the highest roller doesn't want it. Let's say Stacy and I roll at the exact same time for an item and there are also other rollers. I get highest, she gets second highest. I then say I don't want it. That...

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:00:53 PST

glad you feel that way Brad... I feel exactly the same way. I'm sure with the expansion and the new loot and stat issues will bring up new concepts to consider, but until that happens, hopefully we'll just have tiny changes such as the MP5 issue with elemental shammies.

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Leilana) — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:43:18 PST

I agree, our guild does rock! As far as the looting system goes, I truely believe that it works just fine. In the time I have been a part of this guild, I can maybe remember 1 or 2 times where things were a little bizzare. We should all know that no looting system is without flaws. However, what makes our looting system great is that it is fair and the poeple in our guild make it work. I have seen some better geared people not roll on loot to make sure that someone else has an opportunity to improve their gear. I know we have all heard "If it ain't broke, Don't fix it." Our looting system ain't broke... Enough Said! :o)

Re: RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:05:09 PST

here here!

RAIDING GUIDELINES

feeds@kickapps.com (Og) — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:50:06 PST

MISC RAID RULES:
--Raid members are picked just prior to starting the instance
-----Guild calendar sign-ups permissible but DO NOT give signed members invitation preference.
-----Guild calendar sign-ups are used only as a tool to forcast attendance.
--Raids should not wait for a particular person to form, even if the raid leader
-----If the raid leader is absent, someone should step up to start the raid in a timely manner.
--Anyone may join into raid selection consideration if rolls for slots have not begun.
--Raid announcement for formation must be in all CAPS and occur at least 4 times over a 5 minute period before rolls / selection may begin.
--Qualified members who were "rolled-off" the previous week, have auto-invite for a new raid selection of the same instance the following...